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Post by grenville on Dec 15, 2008 23:17:30 GMT
Well with news from both Suzuki and Subaru that their rallying days are/might be numbered one really has to ask where is rallying headed? Citroen are rumored to be unhappy with S2000 and may be leaving...to F1 no less. Ford are on very shaky ground as the current financial crisis is putting the pressure on all car companies. Let us not forget that Ford nearly pulled the plug a few years ago. So that leaves us with....0 teams inthe WRC.
I think the success of S2000 will really determine the future of rallying. Teams are going to leave but a number of teams (Fiat, Skoda, Peugeot) have embraced S2000. A lot of change will happen but whether you like it or not it is a change that must happen. Like F1 some big changes in the cost of rallying must take place if the sport it to survive. I think we don't have the luxury of enjoying the best of the best as it is quite clear that very few can compete at this level.
Lastly I am almost anxious to support the IRC rather than the WRC. They embraced the changes and have come up with a very impressive program. The WRC on the other hand along with the FIA have alienated fans and driven the sport to what it has become. The writing was on the wall years ago but they chose not to act.
I know a long rant for someone has been gone so long. Just sad and excited at the same time. I really don't follow rallying anymore but still would hate to see it dissapear at the top level.
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sarah
Chief Marshall
Posts: 79
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Post by sarah on Dec 16, 2008 6:44:33 GMT
I've just heard about Subaru, apparently the official word comes out tonight as to whether or not they're still in. If they're out... I can't even think... Everything is definately up in the air as to whether WRC or S2000 will exist in the future at the moment.
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Post by Hurricane on Dec 16, 2008 9:59:08 GMT
Subaru pulling out has been confirmed on numerous websites. And it's on the SWRT website aswell: www.swrt.com/news/latest_news.html?id=1590I'm at a loss of words now. I think we've seen the last of the WRC... I don't think Ford, and surely not Citroën will compete in a WRC without competitors.
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Post by Roo on Dec 16, 2008 11:14:03 GMT
The FIA seem to have an obsession with constantly changing the rules wherever they see fit. The recent changes to the tyre regulations were made to cut costs. That worked to an extent, but it also cut safety. Not having an alternative tyre for rather treacherous conditions, like those in Japan and Wales, and then expecting drivers to drive competitively is just ludicrous . Having a cost cutting measure at the expense of driver's safety. FIA, what were you thinking?
And then, Pirelli are told that they cannot add additional grooves to the tyre to give additional grip, because it "may" give teams a competitive advantage. FIA, what were you thinking?
The reason why so many teams are falling by the wayside, is cost. The teams have been calling for changes to the WRC formula for years, yet it is only now that the FIA are starting to draw up plans to introduce a new formula, which they still haven't completely sorted out yet.
The FIA reckon that the S2000+ regulations they propose will be successful. How they envisage the future regs to work, is that you will be able to purchase a kit that will transform a S2000 car into a WRC spec car. The kit would include a new gearbox, turbo and aero package. Turbo: there's the problem.
Super 2000 cars are naturally aspirated, they are not designed to incorporate a turbo charger. The idea of being able to just "bolt it on" is again ludicrous, and shows just how short sighted these morons are. Put simply, you cannot install a turbo charger on a naturally aspirated engine very easily at all. The compression ratios, timing, component strength would all surely be compromised. FIA, what were you thinking?
Also, S2000 goes against the current trend in automotive technology. In a time of more environmental awareness, consumers are looking for road cars that are not only more fuel efficient and produce less emissions, but also produce more power. A turbo charger is a great idea for small engines, as it recycles exhaust emissions from the engine to create more power.
And I don't know what other people think on this forum, but I believe the S2000 cars are a bit boring. Because they are not turbo charged, they have stuff all torque at low revs. Less torque in rallying means less power through corners. And you need power to go through sideways through corners. Less sideways = less entertainment, which then equates to less spectator interest.
My solution to creating a new WRC formula is really quite simple. Keep the existing WRC homologation requirements in place (i.e. the number of cars a manufacturer must build), but employ less technological additions, so that the cars are on about the same performance level as Group A era cars from the early 90's.
Why should manufacturers be forced to make a Super2000 car before being able to make a WR car? It doubles the cost. I'll do a video over the Christmas break to further explain what level of performance I'm talking about.
But in short, the new WRC formula needs to be about the same performance/cost level as Group A. In between Group N and current WRC.
The future of rallying is doomed, with the current level of incompetence and sheer political absurdity within the FIA.
I have no confidence in regards to the FIA whatsoever. I started watching the WRC full time from 2002, and since that time, the sport has just been going down hill. Driver limitations in 2004, introduction of SupeRally, a refusal to reduce the cost of competing at the highest level, limitation of tyres firstly down to one manufacturer, then one nominated tyre, then one solitary surface tyre and the removal of tyre cutting.
I feel sorry for the teams, especially those who tried to reason with the governing body but were simply ignored. I feel sorry for the drivers, as the sport they love so much is now far less enjoyable. I feel sorry for the fans around the world, who have watched the sport become a farce.
FIA, what were you thinking?
If you had the tenacity to read all of that and gain something out of my emotional rant, I take my hat off to you.
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Post by JJ on Dec 16, 2008 12:04:41 GMT
Super 2000 cars are naturally aspirated, they are not designed to incorporate a turbo charger. The idea of being able to just "bolt it on" is again ludicrous, and shows just how short sighted these morons are. Put simply, you cannot install a turbo charger on a naturally aspirated engine very easily at all. The compression ratios, timing, component strength would all surely be compromised. FIA, what were you thinking? Firstly, this will work because, as you mention elsewhere, that it will allow the S2000 cars to have the slight boost at lower revs to cause more of a spectacle - it'll help boost them out of hairpins, give them a bit of sideways etc Just as it seems you want. Not only that but it gives the opportunity for more privateers to join the WRC because there won't be a massive difference in cost, they'll just have an extra 50bhp through the addition of the boost.Which tends to be quite technical at the moment doesn't it?Slightly contradicts doesnt it? These added technical bits add thousands of £'s to the cost, keeping it mechanical with a mechanical paddle shift (which i believe is whats proposed) is going to bring the costs lower quite considerably. You look at the cost of a S2000 compared to a WRC. Thats your opinion granted, but I believe S2000 to be the most exciting development in rallying for a LONG time. People love high revving cars echoing through the forests and I believe a more production based car, with only body differences being flared arches and a wing (rather than the whole aero package like bumpers you get now) relates more to the general public. In what respect does it double the cost?! No team has been told they have to build a S2000 before a WRC - Suzuki never? If you mean in 2010 they have to build a S2000 then a WR Car then of course they do because they have to be seen to be providing a base car for those privateers. Thats how we're going to get privateers back into this game, who aren't completely drowned in money (Ostberg etc) All WRC's will be is a S2000 with a pack on it, so no point going and building a straight S2000+ WRC. Take a look at the prices. Where's S2000 placed Its only doomed when people take negative stances against anything to do with it. There's a lot of people (and this isnt directed against you Roo) that are stuck in the past with F2 (as amazing as it was), Group A. Granted, I like them but at the end of the day rallying needs to evolve like anything does and S2000 is the next stage to that evolution. Like it or lump it, thats how its going and I believe it'll revive rallying and provide at least a footing for the WRC to build on.What he said
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Post by Hurricane on Dec 16, 2008 13:12:17 GMT
I think S2000+ will be good to watch too. I've been at the IRC in Ypres even before the start of S2000 cars, but those were fantastic to watch (and believe me, they go sideways ) I have to agree with Roo on the decisions of the FIA, what a bunch of morons, and now they have to face the consequences, with manufacturers pulling out. I hope we will still see many private teams in 2009, else it won't be very interesting with only 8 manufacturer seats of which 6 are in a Ford.
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Post by tfliprex on Dec 19, 2008 19:07:41 GMT
Seems like the future of the WRC should be that it must be a separate entity. WRC should not be under FIA because FIA is just a mess and full of moronic politics. So split the WRC from the FIA, stay away from FIA, do not let FIA have a word to say. WRC can not coexist with FIA. Keep current rules, 10 fixed rallies + 2 rotational. FIA has doomed many teams and many ideas. As a Subaru fan, I am very very disappointed about the lack of help from the FIA to actually encourage teams to remain and keep the rallies going. You can also add my displeasure with Pirelli, and thier stupidity.
Flip
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Post by Nick McRae on Dec 20, 2008 11:17:29 GMT
To be fair Pirelli are handcuffed to what the FIA tell them to do, so once again it's the FIA being stupid!
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Post by Will on Dec 20, 2008 13:43:07 GMT
F******** ******** ******** ********* ******** ****** ******* ***** ****** ******** ****ing FIA!!!!!!
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